Joe Rogan’s Truth On Self-Defence & Mysticism

Love him or hate him Joe Rogan makes some very valid points on the topics of mysticism and self-defence in martial arts, specifically in regards to what works and doesn’t, and he does so in a clear and concise way that people get and understand… but he always creates controversy.

1. Mysticism. We have all seen the videos, mostly of little old Asian dudes in various parts of Asia using their Ki or Qi to send people flying, and sometimes North American’s as well, knocking people out with a touch.
Ki Master vs_MMA Fighter
In the demonstrations you will have VERY willing opponents seemingly being thrown through the air, or collapsing, with the “master” seeming to do very little. It looks like magic, and for the most part, it is. Magic in the sense it is completely fake. I mean come on! Give me a break. How can anyone believe this nonsense?! I understand it must be very difficult if you have studied a martial art under the lineage of one theses guys, but it is just nonsense. It has bGeorge Dillmaneen proven over and over, and now with the advent of MMA since the early 90s, there is no more curtain to hide behind. The call is out there. Prove it! And every time it comes close, it is either proven to be fake, or the practitioner has some lame excuse. The person wasn’t breathing correctly. The wind was off. Whatever. Sure, it looks magical and fun to watch, but people can’t be fooled as easily any more.
wim-hof

Not to say there are not people who can do some amazing shit. Someone like Wim Hof can do some crazy stuff with his mind! And he’s legit. Using meditation to stay submerged in ice water for 1 hour and 53 minutes without his core body temperature changing. Climbing Mount Everest in his shorts, resisted altitude sickness,
completed a marathon in the Namib Desert with no water and proven under a laboratory setting that he’s able to influence his autonomic nervous system and immune system at will. BUT! That is his own physiological system. He isn’t sending people flying like rag-dolls.

2. Self-defence. This one is a little trickier, and causes a lot more controversy and raises emotions. However, it is an area I speak from with some experience and authority. Does bunkai and fancy martial arts moves work in Self-Defense? I am going to say for the most part, no. Now, this is where the tension and ager rises and people get very upset (usually at Joe!), but lets try to look at this objectively and factually.

ThePerfectWeaponI studied a martial art called American Kenpo for many years and obtained a black belt in it. American Kenpo is often referred to as a “system designed for the street”, working off a multiple striking principle. Became famous from a movie called The Perfect Weapon, with Jeff Speakman. I felt pretty proud of the black belt achievement and had worked hard for it. I was very fast, I was very flashy and I looked like I knew what I was doing. However. This was only with a willing opponent. If I had someone stand and throw a punch or kick, let the strike linger and I knew what was coming, I would pull of the most flashy looking thing which looked straight out of a movie. The problem is… it basically is movie fighting.

When faced with a situation when I did not know what strike or attack was coming, and I wasn’t fully prepared for it, and the person was recoiling their strikes… I couldn’t do shit. My training went out the window, and I just began swinging and reacting. When the UFC came along it further gave me pause for thought. In the early days I would see people of different disciplines enter the octagon, only to have their training go out the window and begin swinging.

This had a profound impact on me. I had to admit a few things to myself. Firstly, everything I had learnt gave me an okay foundation, but there was no practicality to any of it. Secondly, I did nSpencer Bennett - Great Britain (IFK)ot know what it was like to be hit, or to really hit someone. As everything I did was prearranged.

Thus, I decided later in life to study Kyokushin Karate, which is a Japanese full-contact style without all the other nonsense. Made famous by fighters like Andy Hug and Georges St. Pierre. Luckily I lived in a city that had not only a phenomenal teacher of Kyokushin and former champion, he also was a kickboxer and understood the combat game. Steve Fogarasi of Contact Kicks Martial Arts. I started over again from the beginning, as a white belt, because in the combat world, I was a white belt. And let me tell you, it was a real wakeup call stepping in front of someone who was trying to hurt me.

osenseiSo, I get it when people are upset when Joe Rogan says their Wing Chun just won’t work. Or their Aikido won’t work. You have spent sometimes years or a lifetime studying something that some guy is saying is bullshit. But, I believe the reason there is so much anger is that people know its true, Joe is speaking from real experience and you feel you’ve wasted your time.

Lets face the facts, MMA is the closest we will ever get wing chunto testing this, and it has proven it to be true over and over again. There is a caveat. It isn’t all useless, and I think that is what people need to realize. You see it more and more. Someone will use with success a technique from his or her traditional martial art inside the octagon, and it works! Could be a kick or a way of moving, but it is unorthodox and it works. That is why the UFC is great. It can prove what works and doesn’t work. So, like Bruce Lee would probably say, adapt and use what is useful. Anything else, disregard.

Bringing this full circle, this is the reason many of these so-called self-defense martial arts create a false sense of security. Like my teacher, Steve Fogarasi, I do believe you can make some of it work, and there are legit people out there who can. However, you would need to focus hours, days and years of your life to make it second nature. Drilling and training over and over again. Or, you could just learn some very basic boxing skills a little grappling and call it a day. You would have enough to defend yourself in most street situations, and if you couldn’t, its unlikely more of that type of training would help you. It’s your choice.

kravmagaThere are some exceptions to this of course. Things like Krav Maga and Filipino Martial Arts which focus on close quarter combat specifically for military application. But generally, like MMA, they will use what is useful and disregard what is not. Very different in more traditional martial arts, which tend to hang onto everything.kali

So, yes, I agree with Joe and my own instructor. The only way to get better is to learn how to strike, block and grapple and use it. You can practice all the kata or forms you want, and you can practice as much as you want with a willing opponent. But the only way to truly defend yourself is to actually use it and drill it over and over again in a fighting situation, learning how to deal with the stress and emotion of it, the exhaustion of it, to learn how to take a strike and keep moving forward and survive.

In closing, I will say for me, my favorite “Self-Defence” practitioner, will always be “El Guapo”, Bas Rutten.

OSU!

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StA
StA
4 years ago

I’m doing, TKD, Wing Chun, Boxing, Judo and BJJ, I like all the styles, but I don’t think BJJ makes you a better striker, it’s a grappling martial art. I used to do Karate 15 years ago (when I was in school) and actually used one of those fancy round house kicks in a real life self defence situation against 2 attackers, knocked one of them out and the other one done a runner. Also used it in a another situation both head height kicks. So am living proof, just saying. But it’s right you can use the bits that… Read more »

Carlos
Carlos
5 years ago

Sensei Scott, Out of courtesy and respect to the Martial Arts and those like yourself that train in a traditional and proven system like the one Mas Oyama created I wanted to confirm that what John posted on March 4th is true, and to also let you know that I have nothing but the utmost respect for those into traditional systems. What happened at the Shotokan dojo was regretfully unavoidable. The 4th Dan was not what most people who train in Shotokan JKA or offshoots are. This individual had a “tough guy” mentality and was not happy that I stated… Read more »

John
John
6 years ago

My cousin trained in Shotokan to brown belt. When he took a job in corrections and witnessed inmates fighting some trying to use Martial Arts, which still got them cut up…real bad, he started adding sparring sessions with the Regional Open Class golden gloves champ for punching, conditioning and getting used to being hit. He then went and rolled around with the local high school wrestling team. He developed a 50 technique personal system combining basic boxing, Shotokan minus katas, and a handful of very basic wrestling. Then he picked up knife techniques from some videos. Started a twice weekly… Read more »

Daniel W.
Daniel W.
6 years ago

It seems to me like people always point to the frauds and say “look this stuff isn’t real” but they don’t look at people like Bruce Frantzis and Jerry Alan Johnson who know the real thing and have been fighting all their life. Jerry Alan Johnson went undefeated and he got challenged by karate, kung fu, muay thai, bjj guys, etc. The traditional method is to first do cooperative drills, then do semi-cooperative, then full contact fighting and drills that are non-cooperative. the traditional fighting method is to test to see if what you can do works because if it… Read more »

B-
B-
6 years ago

My sons, 4 & 6 have been taking American Kenpo (Tommy Chavies, Ed Parker System) for 9 month, 5 hrs every week. Kids LOVE the class and LOVE Tommy. It’s been amazing to see them grow in confidence, learn discipline & structure. I see no need to change, and will let this play out as long as I can. My 1st & last fight was 30sec in 8th grade… considering my decades of travels, perhaps I should teach self defense classes? So I know nothing of fighting, aside from movies & TV highlights. Nada. I just started watching some MMA… Read more »

Chris | Martial Development

Who exactly is upset when Joe Rogan says Wing Chun doesn’t work? I have never met any Wing Chun person who cares about his critical opinion. They are all too busy attacking each other.

B60943
B60943
7 years ago

A word on MMA vs traditional martial arts when it comes to self defense. Who would win in fight between a boxer and a judoka using judo rules? The obvious answer is the judo player, the opposite is also true if they were fighting using boxing rules. This is true because both martial artist are masters of their own craft within their own rules. MMA is not an example of self defense because MMA fights are not based on self defense rules. To be a great fighter and win every fight you get into, study MMA because that’s what MMA… Read more »

Jet Black
Jet Black
8 years ago

Let me share with you some thought regarding Wing Chun. Yes Wing Chun won’t work in MMA matches because most of its moves are not allowed per MMA rules. Take out the rules and MMA fighters won’t stand a chance. What Wing Chun Moves are Illegal in MMA? -Eye gouging of any kind. -Groin attacks of any kind. -Small joint manipulation. -Striking to the spine or the back of the head. -Striking downward using the point of the elbow. -Throat strikes of any kind, including, without limitation, grabbing the trachea. -Kicking the head of a grounded opponent. -Kneeing the head… Read more »

Lee
Lee
8 years ago

3:21 on this video, may the force be with you, Osu! https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9hy7QhWY9_I

Lee
Lee
8 years ago

3:21 on this video may the force be with you!

Lee
Lee
8 years ago

Martial arts stems from eastern philosophy and religion Originally. I won’t go into to much detail about who I am or what I represent, but remember reading a book Mas Oyama wrote that explained about the energy body and meridians or internal chakras. Kyokushin no doubt in my mind stands at the top of the pyramid for Martial arts practice. The Kanku and calligraphy are and have spiritual meaning! Not agreeing with Joe Rogan ATAL here, and he no doubt wouldn’t be available for confrontation after I bring the proof and facts to the table that he is WRONG! He’s… Read more »

Martial Artist
Martial Artist
8 years ago

Karate, TKD, Aikido, etc…..alone by itself suck and give practitioners a false sense of confidence and security IMO. All professional fighters (Anderson Silva with Capoeira and TKD….Lyoto Machida with Karate, etc) all use boxing or kickboxing (Muay Thai included) as their base. TKD, Karate are useful when applied with some form of boxing or kickboxing. Ignorant people, particularly people who spent years and thousands of dollars on Aikido and Wing Chun and TKD don’t want to hear that. These martial arts don’t have practical sparring (like Boxing, Kickboxing, Muay Thai, etc). They also don’t emphasize strategic striking (head movement, footwork,… Read more »

Mark Edgar
Mark Edgar
8 years ago

your ‘story’ confuses me.. you say that bunkai doesn’t work in self defence?… then you juxtapose your opinion with MMA… A sport? there are rules in any sport and I don’t find MMA self defence… thuggery at its best. Secondly you say that all the training you did meant shit in the street… that’s because you didn’t apply your training to self defence.. you probably assumed a fighting stance ( as you would on the dojo floor) and turned the encounter into a ‘sport fight’.. this is where you are incredibly wrong! in a real self defence situation and using… Read more »

Bill Stewart
Bill Stewart
8 years ago

A friend of mine (tae kwon do) sponsored a George Dillman seminar at his school once. This was late 80’s as I recall. I attended with one of my brown belt students to support my friend. George Dillman was demonstrating how using ki and hitting certain points in sequence could knock someone out. I was a recently promoted nidan in Kyokushin. Although I had showed up with an open mind I was highly skeptical about what he was saying. I somehow got picked as an uke so he could “demonstrate” that it worked. I was standing in fudo dachi with… Read more »

Rick Matz
8 years ago

As a young man, I spent a LOT of time training in Yoshinkan Aikido. I also worked in security at a hotel in Detroit. Aikido served me well in controlling people until the police showed up on the few occasions that I needed to use that training back in the late 70’s.

Having said that, and knowledgeable of how Aikido is usually presented, I think that actually being able to use one’s Aikido skills has become a rare thing.

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